Windows Theme Project (Progress Report) #3
Progress:
- Narrowed direction and focus for Firefox 3.7 and 4.0 Theme/UI changes
Next Steps:
- Menu item trimming/sorting
- File bugs related to implementation
- Start implementation
Specifics:
Had a lot of great progress this week. The UX team had a chance to narrow focus for future Theme/UI work. This resulted in a very productive design lunch talk by Alex Limi and Alex Faaborg. We also had some great meetings about needed platform capabilities (posted to the Wiki by Alex Faaborg).
We currently have some working directions for 3.7 and 4.0. Not set in stone of course, but a firm direction to start with.
Firefox 3.7:
- Hide menubar by default(on Vista and 7, not XP).
- Sort existing menu items into something like Page/Tools buttons (actual implementation to be determined).
- Move the bookmarks menu item to a bookmarks widget. This can live on the bookmarks toolbar(default) or on the navigation bar.
- Create a home tab. Loads homepage in 3.7 to have expanded functionality in 4.0.
- Combine stop/reload into one button. Optional separate stop and reload buttons in the customization pane.
- Progress “line” under location bar on active tab. At the top of the tab for background tabs.
Firefox 4.0:
- Introduction of “App” tabs
- Combine location bar and search bar (separate location and search items can be customized).
- Tabs-on-top option (possibly left/right as well).
- In bar search “button” with drop down of other types of search.
- Ability to attach stop/reload/go to location bar (TBD).
- Expanded home tab functionality.
- Disable bookmarks bar by default if it has not been altered from default.
- Remove status bar. Create a place for extensions.
- Profile/identity UI.
Tags: Experimental Progress Report Theme Windows Wireframes
This entry was posted on Friday, August 28th, 2009 at 1:27 pm and is filed under Firefox. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
22 Responses to “Windows Theme Project (Progress Report) #3”
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Have you guys considered, if you’re going to move something to the titlebar, moving the urlbar up there? I had something like that running on FF3 for awhile, and its kinda a nice place for it. Instead of showing urls you can put the page title up there (show urls on focus or hover or just show the hostname in the current identity spot, and you have something that looks fairly similar to what’s normally in the titlebar. You avoid all the awkward “why isn’t this normal” moments and save the exact same amount of screen space. Showing titles emphasizes that you can use them in the awesomebar instead of just typing urls too, which I always thought was nice.
I had something like that mocked up and halfway working once. A bit office 2007 like, just to see if it would work for a browser. A big huge high-res back button taking up two rows. Then a smaller forward, reload, and urlbar in the titlebar, and a second row with Office2007 style ribbon for things like “Tabs” (shown whenever nothing else was selected) or “Bookmarks” (which can nicely held buttons for RSS and “starring”).
All of this just feels way to conservative to me.
What’s an App Tab? Sounds to me like having Fx and Tb in one windows, but I guess, it’s not that easily possible to do and regardless everything, it’s not that one idea…
I’m not clear on why everyone is in such a rush to throw out 20+ years of UI consistency. My intention is not to be rude, but these designs seem like a poor amalgamation of IE/Chrome/Safari. Seems like Google envy has infected Mozilla leading to a thrust toward the latest fad in tab design. From what I can see, Firefox’s market share and growth hasn’t been much affected by the release of Chrome or Safari so it’s not like you need to play catch up.
I’m all for change if it make a clear positive impact, but I question whether you guys have thought through all the implications.
Get rid of both the menu bar and statusbar? I would guess that >75% of add-ons use the menu bar or statusbar or both. Even if you provide and alternate locations, many add-ons will not update after these changes. From a developers point of view, it’s just not worth it. Are you trying to throw away the one clear advantage that Firefox has over other browsers? (a vibrant add-ons ecosystem)
If the Firefox interface is like that, I change over version. For me it’s an interface for occasional web users. Not enough space for tabs. Too much importance to the address bar.
I don’t like the interface of Chrome and IE. Looks like a mix.
I’m going to be blunt here, I hate what the wireframes show. Come up with something new and stop trying to look like IE and/or Chrome. I don’t even feel like I need to be specific because anyone that isn’t half blind can tell that you are trying to make Firefox look like the two aforementioned browsers. That was fine and dandy back at Firefox 1.0 when we were trying to get people to switch and feel right at home with the buttons, menus, and any other UI being identical locations but users have come a long ways in the last five years.
I think that I share the many sediments here. What you have for 3.7 is looking much like Chrome’s interface with a little or IE7+ UI work mixed in. That said, it looking at what you have, I have a few questions…
One of the biggest it his off reason to habit to have the “New tab” button to the right like IE, it catches me as un-organized for the overall design. So why do that?
WHY hide the meun bar, even for Win7? Doing this would have much functionality from Fx (unless 3.7 and 4.0 magically don’t need the menu bar)
The home button is a good idea, BUT, one of the royal pains with that is that you keep it out of the eye of the user with the way that you have it currently since it small and out of the away from the other tools (Forward/Back button and reload button). IE7+ pulled this, and it remains to make the tool bar a bit of a mess… since it’s really out of the way to find. Would it possible to re-position that to something in or beside the location bar? And/or making the button bigger?
In-bar search “button”… which is funny, doesn’t Fx does this already? Does the search and URL need to be in the same bar? What happens if you need to search for something outside of the default site, how would that be presented in the “In-bar search” without being much of an annoyance?
Profile/identity UI… Please keep this, it’s LONG over due.
I don’t hate it like Kurt does, but I do agree with one thing: it’s very much like Chrome. Yes, the menubar has to go on Vista+, and there are a lot of otherlong-overdue changes, but I’m disappointed that there’s nothing truly innovative here. Taking ideas for a good reason is fine (good, actually, get away from NIH), but even the look of the buttons is Chrome-y: squares with slightly round corners. It’s more about identity to me, and I don’t think this differentiates enough. When Chrome came out there were some real big changes like tabs-on-top, just two menus, etc. They have it a zillion times easier by starting from a clean slate, but there isn’t tons like that I see (special tabs + spot for weave is what I see).
Are those things really truly the best that can be thought up? Maybe it’s just not seeing the path that led to the mockups that makes me say that. But is that really the best button style for a browser? Is Page and Tools really the best division for menus? I hope you see what I’m trying to say – it’s not about encouraging being more radical as looking for things that are innovative.
On a note separate from general direction, how do overflow tabs work with a home tab and app tabs?
Are there any usability studies backing up such changes or it is just the “me too” effect?
Mixing the url bar with the search bar can be nice for people that don’t use searches every minute and enter addresses in the url bar every other minute, but for people that heavily use such features there is no way that would be a benefit. There is no need for integration either as you got a lot more space with the buttons you removed/integrated and nowadays most people use wide screens. Even with a 4:3 screen it’s difficult to fill the current address bar with a lot of extra buttons and the search bar in the same line.
The page and tools button. I’m not opposed to those as long as the menu bar can be optionally turned back. I would actually use them but is there a need to have such big text on them? Why not write back and forward in the navigation buttons as well? Just use proper graphic representations.
Tabs, I guess, will be optionally set in the top or the bottom (like it is now) because for a lot of people (maybe most) it doesn’t make sense to have them on top. Tabs are related to content and having them on top mix them with the browser real state (tools, bookmarks, etc).
You will take away the status bar and add another place for extensions? What’s the benefit? Real space not recovered, usability most probably not improved, years of common UI design thrown away. The status bar is not only used for extensions, there is a lot of information there like links urls or downloads status notification.
Tab load progress should have a unified place of notification. You’re really thinking in usability terms here? You’re using two quite different places for notification. Why not use the same place for all them. Tab Mix Plus provides a loading progress notification by changing the background color of the tab while loading. You can learn from them for sure. In my opinion that’s a better way to show the load status.
The home button seems like a nice addition. I guess the home page can be extended with an option to show tasks, most used bookmarks and other useful information on it.
A few comments.
1. I really like that the goal here seems to be increased space for the web page. In general, I love the 4.0 layout with the tabs on top, even if it is a bit *me too*. And the mockups look gorgeous – having a see-through Firefox might be what’s needed to get me to upgrade to Windows 7.
2. One common complaint with IE7 was that the stop/reload was moved over to the right. While this looks very sleek in your sketch for 4.0, it breaks many years of muscle memory. Make it optional, off by default.
3. Another mistake the IE team made was to make the contents of the Tools menu item and the Tools button different. NOT GOOD. (Think: User has a problem, someone is trying to explain: No, you have to click the Tools *menu item* not the tools *button* …) Just don’t repeat this mistake and we’ll all be fine.
4. Some people here are defending the status bar just because it has been around since day 1. That is no real reason to keep it. If the functionality of the status bar can be moved elsewhere, rip it off like a bandaid. But don’t underestimate the usefulness and importance of knowing where a link points to.
5. I’m not sure about combining the URL and search bar. They were split up for a reason when Firefox was thought up. Are the users in general ready for them to be combined again? That said, I don’t know exactly how this combined bar will be implemented.
The things I’m always most worried about with UI changes is making sure things are still customizable and they adhere to basic intuitiveness and accessibility rules.
For example, the mess that was caused when the ‘new tab’ button was added to the tab bar. It’s still not customizable
.
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Well I for one like the chrome UI and IE 7 (to a degree) and don’t mind cross-pollination, you just know that no matter what happens /someone/ will hate it and there will be a theme that looks like the old one.
@DonGato: How does combining the search and address boxes impair the search experience? I don’t think Google would do anything to harm their primary product.
Personally I use an extension to provide search results in my awesomebar.
(PS. this page is very uncomfortable to scroll – using firefox 3.5.2 w7 on athlon64 3200+, not fastest thing around … but really)
I hope some of these ideas will carry over the the Mac OS theme.
First let me say, that outside of the missing menu bar, I kind of like the 3.7 design. It is sleek, refined, and well designed. It retains the status bar, if I’m seeing it right. It has good layout. It would be tolerable except for one flaw.
The only thing wrong with the Firefox 3.7 design is the missing menu bar. I may be “old fashioned” by Web 2.0 standards, but I’m one of those who loves what Microsoft calls the “classic menu”. The first thing I did when I got IE7 was turn on the “classic menu” option. Down the road, Microsoft redesigned the IE7 installer to turn it on automatically.
Firefox 4.0 design, on the other hand, is something else entirely. Let me be blunt, I think it’s more crap than anything else. No menu bar, as I’ve pointed out, is just wrong. Beyond that, I have several other problems.
The location bar and search bar serve different and disparate functions. The location bar is for typing in URLs and quick searching bookmarks and history. The search bar for searching the Internet with the convenience of not having to go to a website (and to put a little money in Mozilla’s pocket). If you combine these two, will my bookmarks and history suddenly be running through Google or whatever search engine selected when I start typing instead of going straight from my hard drive to the location bar on the screen? There are back end changes that would have to be made so that the user can decide if they want a location bar or a search bar, else you have a privacy issue. Also, I prefer two separate bars for two separate functions and think it would be a mistake to combine them for no good reason. One long bar isn’t that useful to me anyway.
The stop/reload/go button idea sounds like dangerously overloading a button with too many functions. Its like the garage door opener with one button. It sounds good in theory, until some rainy night when you push the button to open the door farther to get your car in and instead the door closes on your car’s hood. I don’t even use the stop/reload combiner extensions available for Firefox right now. Moving all this into the location bar sounds just jarring to people who are use to it being to the left of the search bar. IE7 and IE8 have the stop button to the right of the location bar and I find it to be the least preferable spot.
DON’T REMOVE THE STATUS BAR!!! It is useful for extensions. The status bar also shows where a link points to, which is an incredibly useful function and also helps security because the user knows where they are looking before they leap.
Furthermore, I repeat what I said last time I posted a comment(http://blog.stephenhorlander.com/2009/08/17/menubar-and-toolbar-handling/comment-page-1/#comment-25):
“I do use Internet Explorer from time-to-time on truly cantankerous business and education websites and version 7 was a real bitter pain. I got use to it and use Internet Explore 8 now comfortably, but it did really hurt to lose all those skills I had built up. The odd thing for me is that I was able to use Office 2007 right off the bat after having lived in Office since Office 2000. I don’t know what difference made Internet Explorer 7 hard and Office 2007 easy, but it is clear to me that Microsoft initially screwed something up with the Internet Explorer interface design and implementation. I would hate for Firefox to have the same problem.”
I repeated the previous because I feel you are making same mistake the IE Team made. You are doing a UI redesign in Firefox 4.0 without making it beneficial to the user. The Office 2007 Team clearly did a lot of user testing to come up with the ribbon design, whereas the IE Team just seemed to decide “heck its 2006, lets junk and replace the interface for no darn good reason”. I tried Google Chrome once, didn’t like it, and uninstalled it within a couple of days of downloading it. You seem to be headed down the design path of “IE7’s doing it and Google Chrome’s doing it, so we should be doing it”. If you’re going to be a lemming going off a cliff with the herd, could you at least be the smart one and bring a parachute?
Albert Einstein once said, “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Firefox 3.7 does feel simple as possible, but Firefox 4.0 feels like you are pushing beyond simpler for simpler’s sake. The wireframes I like previously (Tabs-On-Bottom Version B, Tabs-On-Top Version B, Tabs-On-Top Version C, and Tabs-On-Top Version D) felt more robust than the new Firefox 4.0 wireframe in this post and I had concerns then too about Firefox being considered a “Chrome knockoff” or an “Internet Explorer 7 knockoff”.
One possibly good thing you have thought up is the turning off of the bookmarks bar. I will have to find a new place for my Sage extension button, Print button, Calculator 1.1.14 button, Flashblock button, and Adblock Plus button. That being said, the bookmarks bar wasn’t that useful when Netscape had it back in the day as real estate for the for the highest advertising bidder.
Now I do have some curiosity questions for you. What is the new “App” tab? Is the “App” tab like Prism? Could an “App” tab be turned into something like Prism by tearing it off the tab bar and dropping it on the desktop? What functionality is being planned for the home tab?
I’m going to say it again. (I’m pretty sure it won’t do any good. When the UI group set their eyes on something nothing else matters.)
Tabs on Top is a VERY bad idea. Despite what Fitt’s law says, alienating your user base is a sure fire way to loose ground to other browsers. Also increases distance between the tab content and the actual tab and it can be much harder to distinguish the tab and its contents.
Removing the status bar is also unwise unless something else will replace it. Google Chrome uses a hover style status bar, but its never 100% removed. Opera after a while of it being gone, put its status bar back on the browser as well.
And what the heck is an “App” Tab? And why isn’t this “feature” documented in MozOrg Wiki?
If u guys are still considering merging the location bar with the search, why dont u implement something like the search like IE8 which has favicons of the search engines on the bottom of the dropdown list. This will make it easier to switch search engines when compared to Chrome, which I presume was intentionally made difficult to change from Google which is usually the default.
Am I the only one who likes the coming improvements? I can’t wait! Putting tabs on top and getting rid of the menu bar will save me a lot of valuable screen real estate. Combining search into the Awesomebar also saves space.
I love it!
First thing I always do on a fresh install is to disable the bookmarks bar, the search field and the statusbar. Let’s get this fat top UI slimmed down!
Love the direction of these new designs!
For me, getting rid of the menu bar isn’t such a bad thing if the user can still access them using two buttons on the far right.
What I dislike, however:
- how the “add tab” button is placed. In my mind, I want it to be fixated at the far right, or else the button becomes a “moving target” that I have to scan for every time I want to use it.
- status bar should be visible by default. As others said, it’s the place for Firefox add-ons. It’s also for displaying useful information that users have been familiar and it would be a pain for it to go away.
- thought it kind of make sense to have URL bar under a tab, a tab-on-top design makes it very difficult to access tab bar. For those like me, who has at least 70+ tabs open at the time, and always want to scroll through tabs with mouse-wheel, changing this design is a really big deal. If possible, I would like you guys to reconsider this.
- combining URL bar and search bar might be OK for Chrome, but not so for Firefox. Since search bar in Firefox can be used for many search providers, it would be a pain when trying to toggle to different search engines. Besides, Firefox ‘awesome bar’ is already complex as it already is, and I don’t think it will do users any good to lump up even more functionality into it. When you type something, how in the world can you know whether what’s present to you is from where. I know that you can differentiate them using icons, but don’t you guys think it’s too much info for users to process when they type just a couple of letters? And what would be of Firefox performance, if you try to do too many things at the same time?
All in all, I guess what I’m trying to say is, yes, going for minimalistic design can be a good thing, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Trying to mimic bad designs from other browsers will upset users than making Firefox useful.
It seems to me that the people who are complaining about the lack of menu and status bars maybe using desktops instead of laptops. These changes are beneficial as they increase real estate for content (very helpful with laptops which more and more people use instead of desktops) and gets the UI out of the users way while also simplifying it for non-power users. The firefox UI team has stated that the menubar and status bar and stand alone stop-reload buttons would be customizable but may not be on by default. If power users are the ones who need these elements then it makes sense that they are not on by default as a power user will know how to turn them on, while everyday users (who may not be as sophisticated) will enjoy a simplified, out of the way UI.
Also if you want to see what they have instore for a customization menu than see: http://www.stephenhorlander.com/images/dev-usability/Wireframe-%28CustomizationUI%29-%28Controlled%29-%28Overview%29.png
Okay, I just noticed something that wasn’t mentioned in the changes and wasn’t obvious to me before. What happened to the drop-down for the navigation buttons? I REALLY hope that functionality wasn’t simply removed because I use that quite a lot. I hope it is just being redesigned maybe to something like Chrome does. If you remove it, that will easily be my biggest complaint.